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to salute or not??

966 Views 40 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  Judazzz
here a good debate..since we have a bunch of debater on the site,do u believe it her right to do this???
hopefully i don't open a can of worms???

Flag Day
Lost in the Toni Smith Story Is Her Responsibility as a Member of a Team

By Frank Deford
Sports Illustrated

You have probably heard by now of Toni Smith, a senior on the women's basketball team at Manhattanville College. Smith has made it a habit to turn 90 degrees away from the flag while the national anthem is played before her games. She is protesting, she says, "the inequalities embedded in the American system," which embraces a rather large territory.

First of all, this is surely a coach's nightmare. To order a player to stand facing the flag is to immediately suffer charges of denying a student their right to freedom of expression. On the other hand, to allow a member of a team to go their own way violates the first tenet of teamwork, of being a part of the whole you have volunteered to join.

What would you do if you were Shawn Lincoln, the first-year Manhattanville coach? There's no easy answer, is there?

Well, I would tell Toni this: You have made your point, and I appreciate how fervently you believe in what you're doing, but you are one of us on this team, and once you put on our Manhattanville uniform you cede certain individual prerogatives. Once the game is over, you may protest in any fashion you wish, but you made the personal decision to try out for this team, so now you are one of us and you must respect us, as a group, even if you don't respect the flag that the rest of us do.

In a real way, it seems to me, the player is using the team, taking advantage of her teammates. The Star-Spangled Banner is played for the game, for the participating teams, and, as a member of the squad, she should honor that fact and not co-opt the opportunity for her own ends. We make all sorts of concessions to our freedom when we participate on a team, and although freedom of political expression may be higher on the scale than, say, obeying training rules, the principle is the same. Indeed, our courts have held that even high school athletes must accept being singled out for drug-testing because they choose to play sports, whereas drug testing is not constitutional for the entire student body.

Of course, it's also true that some coaches are bullies and despots, who misuse their authority, but being on a team is the ideal of sacrifice, and when an individual breaches that unity, that goal, then something noble is lost.

Having said that, it is also probably true that games -- and teams -- may have been co-opted for showy patriotic purposes. Whoever would have thought that the last refuge of patriotism would be the beginning of a ballgame? Myself, I rather like it that we find reasons to play our national anthem in common places of joy, such as stadiums and arenas. If The Star-Spangled Banner is only rendered on military or state occasions, or at funerals and memorials, we would come to not think so warmly of our anthem, wouldn't we? But too often lately, the anthem seems to have provided an excuse for other expressions, invariably more martial in tone than democratic. Specifically, the business of having a squadron of fighter jets swoop over the stadium as soon as "the land of the free and the home of the brave" has lifted into the air. In peacetime or wartime, I really don't think we need that sort of military display as a benediction to our games.

It's enough, I think, to face the flag and hear the anthem, together.
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....if you live in america, then you should respect the american flag and the national anthem...it doesn't mean you have to salute or believe in the ethics of this country, but its just out of pure respect to stand up for our flag or during the presentation of our national anthem

She needs to go live in a different country maybe say Iraq so we can blow her up!!
...wtf is this country's obsession with blowing sh*t up?
If she doesn't believe in what the American flag stands for, fine, that is entirely up to her. But I dont see any need to turn away from it. Remain seated like everyone else who dont believe. For some reason this post really bothered me but I cant even explain it. Oh well.
i think its pride for you country kicking in
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Judazzz said:
I can't stand that US government crap about "you're either with us, or you're against us": the world isn't black and white like that: every person (just like any nation collectively) has it's own opinions, and those should be cherished by their government, as far as they do not pose a thread!!! Saying that you are against a war that your government wants to wage is not a thread: the government is making that a thread, by saying "he's against the war, so he is against us"... Witch hunt they call this (or popression of free speech and opinion), and the first signs are already noticable in the US, the world's greatest "democracy"...
the world IS black and white like that....everyone sees the same thing in this world...they think the US poses a threat to the world. they think the US is just power hungry....but perhaps the US isn't out to dominate the world, perhaps the US is out there to make the world a better place since no one else wants to do it....so yea, i stand by my president when he says "either you're with us, or against us"...and i feel the world is against the US and its noble causes
Judazzz said:
On what is the assumption that the US can dictate other nations based? That they have liberated Europe in WW2 (if so, than it's a very sad thing that such a powerful nation still has to dig this up as a reminder, to convince other nations that they should follow the US's course...)? That they have the most powerful and destructive weapons? The they are the most economically developed and influential nation in the world? Or what is it?
the US doesn't dictate other nations...the US offer aides and support....(ie...afghanistan)...
Neoplasia said:
Probably. I hope Bushy and his posse are ready for the international backlash.
im kinda sketchy on something though, after we remove saddam, who's gonna be the one in government power ruling iraq...the shiites or the kurds?....can anyone answer me this because no one has covered this part, and im just curious
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Judazzz said:
I agree it'll be very interesting to see what will happen in Iraq...
in my opinion, in about 5 years, iraq will be like another isreal....where the kurds and shiites fight for land and control of the government
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i think this thread is done....juda, neo and i have finished it
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