[thoroughbred]

i have 180 wiht 2 breeding convicts, male convict, jewel , salvini, butti, pike, i had green terror but he died

so im thinking of adding a jaguar do you think this will work in there?

pike-4"
butti-4"
jewwl /salvini-3"
convicts-fat 3"

p.s pike is growing like a mofo and god damn their aggresive, him and butti rule tank right now but jewel and salvini arent growing as fast, is it beause they dont get as big?

 

[piranha45]

You should NOT get a jaguar. You have two big nasty cichlids in there already-- the butti and redbelly pike. Two big bruisers in a 180g is the limit, as far as big mean fish go. If you wanted to get rid of one of those two guys and get a jag in its place, that would prolly work.

Jewels are slow growers because they are pretty small fish by cichlid standards. Theyll only hit 4", maybe 5".

Salvini will get about 8", maybe 10" if its really old. They are not as big a fish as a butti, but they are still capable aggressive fish themselves. My personal salvini runs my 200g, but he doesn't have much competition.

You got a big tank, but your fish are still just little guys. Gotta have patience though, in a year or so the butti and pike will have that tank filled out quite nicely.

If you want more action in your tank, I'd recommend african mbuna cichlids.

 

[thoroughbred]

You should NOT get a jaguar. You have two big nasty cichlids in there already-- the butti and redbelly pike. Two big bruisers in a 180g is the limit, as far as big mean fish go. If you wanted to get rid of one of those two guys and get a jag in its place, that would prolly work.

Jewels are slow growers because they are pretty small fish by cichlid standards. Theyll only hit 4", maybe 5".

Salvini will get about 8", maybe 10" if its really old. They are not as big a fish as a butti, but they are still capable aggressive fish themselves. My personal salvini runs my 200g, but he doesn't have much competition.

You got a big tank, but your fish are still just little guys. Gotta have patience though, in a year or so the butti and pike will have that tank filled out quite nicely.

If you want more action in your tank, I'd recommend african mbuna cichlids.

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thx p45 i think thats what it is there all so small so im trying to fill thank out, and about the jaguar comment is that always the way it is? i saw some guy on here with a 180 that had fh, rd/midas and another aggresive cichlids and he said he had no problem do you think it was because he had them toegther since they were small , or just because of what he had in there? butti gest like 16" pike is 12-14" i think whats jag? i would love to have 3 bastards but i wont if i cant

 

[piranha45]

aggression problems aren't the only issue with overcrowding CAs, though it can certainly be a major issue. Its true that aggression problems can OFTEN be deeply curbed by raising the fish up together from a young age.

However, these fish are intended to be territorial, and most of us hobbiests try to keep things relatively 'natural' as they are in the wild by providing them with at least some significant amount of space.

A 180g is generally considered to have about enough space for two 12" cichlids to each hold a reasonable amount of territory, or to at least offer enough space for one fish to stay out of the other's way if one is dominant.

You can overcrowd your tank if you want, and the 3 guys MAY end up getting along reasonably well, but I and alot of other people maintain that they would all be better off if they were given more space. These fish are not social in the wild, so it is not considered 'proper' to try and force them to be social in the aquarium.

It's really just our opinion on what constitutes 'good' fishkeeping though, and if you want to try it out for yourself go ahead, but be prepared to take something back somewhere down the line if they don't get along.

 

[thoroughbred]

aggression problems aren't the only issue with overcrowding CAs, though it can certainly be a major issue. Its true that aggression problems can OFTEN be deeply curbed by raising the fish up together from a young age.

However, these fish are intended to be territorial, and most of us hobbiests try to keep things relatively 'natural' as they are in the wild by providing them with at least some significant amount of space.

A 180g is generally considered to have about enough space for two 12" cichlids to each hold a reasonable amount of territory, or to at least offer enough space for one fish to stay out of the other's way if one is dominant.

You can overcrowd your tank if you want, and the 3 guys MAY end up getting along reasonably well, but I and alot of other people maintain that they would all be better off if they were given more space. These fish are not social in the wild, so it is not considered 'proper' to try and force them to be social in the aquarium.

It's really just our opinion on what constitutes 'good' fishkeeping though, and if you want to try it out for yourself go ahead, but be prepared to take something back somewhere down the line if they don't get along.

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THX P45 i wont do it ill keep the pike and butti and the dempsey will eb 3rd in line , hes actually keeping out of eevryones way but what i am suprised is seeing how aggresive that pike is , so is the butti but that pike is very surpisingly mean

 

[o snap its eric]

p45 pretty much summed it all up. But not to mention one more thing. All fish are different. I too have seen some crowded tanks with some large terrirtorial cichlilds and they just do fine. Reason for it, i dont know. How, just due to observation and speculation, if the agressor of the tank doesnt kill the less dominant fish within the first few days or maybe a week each fish will know where they stand in the pecking order and each fish will know where to swim/hover and where not to.

So in short it depends on the your meanest fish. Does it not tolerate tankmates perminantly or just beats the crap out of it so the tanmates realize they are peasents and the one who whooped their arse are masters.

IE: perfect example in my tank right now. I have a breeding pair of midas. The male chases everything in the tank including my dovii during breeding and not during breeding. When the male first entered he also got into fights with my breeding convicts and they were running the show before he came in but just due to size differences the convicts lost. Then you got my female. Very docile. Once in a great while she might chase a fish but not even long enough for you to even consider is chasing. And lastly i have a small green terror. I would have guessed that would be the first to go but for some odd way, the green terror is the least harrassed by my male midas. So in conclusion, all depends on the fish. It might be worth while to experiment but realize one day you might end up with a dead fish.

For comparison purposes:

breeding midas = 7-8"
breeding convicts = 3-4"
male dovii = 6"
male green terror = 2"

No deaths, barely any tore up finnage. All have been living in the tank for over a month, some longer. They are all in a 90g.

Personally i dont mind crowding a little bit for spicing up the tank.

 

[thoroughbred]

p45 pretty much summed it all up. But not to mention one more thing. All fish are different. I too have seen some crowded tanks with some large terrirtorial cichlilds and they just do fine. Reason for it, i dont know. How, just due to observation and speculation, if the agressor of the tank doesnt kill the less dominant fish within the first few days or maybe a week each fish will know where they stand in the pecking order and each fish will know where to swim/hover and where not to.

So in short it depends on the your meanest fish. Does it not tolerate tankmates perminantly or just beats the crap out of it so the tanmates realize they are peasents and the one who whooped their arse are masters.

IE: perfect example in my tank right now. I have a breeding pair of midas. The male chases everything in the tank including my dovii during breeding and not during breeding. When the male first entered he also got into fights with my breeding convicts and they were running the show before he came in but just due to size differences the convicts lost. Then you got my female. Very docile. Once in a great while she might chase a fish but not even long enough for you to even consider is chasing. And lastly i have a small green terror. I would have guessed that would be the first to go but for some odd way, the green terror is the least harrassed by my male midas. So in conclusion, all depends on the fish. It might be worth while to experiment but realize one day you might end up with a dead fish.

For comparison purposes:

breeding midas = 7-8"
breeding convicts = 3-4"
male dovii = 6"
male green terror = 2"

No deaths, barely any tore up finnage. All have been living in the tank for over a month, some longer. They are all in a 90g.
Personally i dont mind crowding a little bit for spicing up the tank.

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very interesting good info e

 

[DC_Cichlid]

Get a small Jag, 1" or something. They take forever to grow.. my buddys oscar has grown 6 inches, and the Jag has only grown 1 inch, and its now 2". It gets along fine with everything now, however things might change. Although he did have a 7" jag in the tank before, but traded it for couple cichlids. So it may work, its up to you to try. Fish put eachother in there own place, just because a jag is "crazy" from what people say.. doesn't mean it wont be scared of any other certain fish. Ive seen 12 cichlids in a 125gallon, the fish where almost fully grown(6-14"), and they all got along fine, and there was a Jag in there about 8". I think you should try it out, its worth a try to see how the jag will react.

 

[piranha45]

we already addressed that

 

[DC_Cichlid]

My bad, well i didn't have enough time to read those huge posts you fockers made :rasp: