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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
is there a way of telling to cariba apart like which is male and which is female ,
i have 4 right know and when they become old enough i would like to try and breed them but i'm not sure if i have 4 males or 4 female so is there a way to tell each fish apart
 

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From what I've heard I don't think you can tell the difference just by looking at them. I'll let someone more educated on the matter elaborate further, I don't want to give out false info. Jesus, you think you got a big enough signature


Mark
 

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is there a way of telling to cariba apart like which is male and which is female
The scenario would play out the same for any Pygocentrus in determining sexual dimorphism, only with actual pre-spawning and laying of eggs will you know for certain which is male and which is female.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
yea but so then what should i do let them mature and try to get them to breed then see which is which
 

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yeah unfortunatly they tend to be sexual dimorphism and are not as easy to sex as other species of fish,
nice cavalier by the way, but I do not like more than one exaust pip on a 4-banger, but still looks good
 

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hastatus said:
is there a way of telling to cariba apart like which is male and which is female
The scenario would play out the same for any Pygocentrus in determining sexual dimorphism, only with actual pre-spawning and laying of eggs will you know for certain which is male and which is female.
key word is certain, indeed you cannot be certain without seeing them breed or cutting them open. However you can make rather good guesses once you have become experienced with breeding pygos
 

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I am leaving out my opinion of it so I dont have to deal with nay sayers
. I'm a bit confused on this last remark. Are you actually saying your opinion is fact each time you state an opinion, therefore you will not state opinion for fear it will be picked apart for being an opinion?

No one, not even me Nate, denies you have an opinion on many things. In fact, your opinion is invaluable to me as a teaching tool for educating the public and new hobbyists. Never think that I am short changing your thinking as anything less than educational and worth replying to when used as a guidance tool to manifest accurate pirana information.
 

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Nate, clear this up for me: What is your experience breeding pygos?

From what I have been told, there is no sure fire way to sex the fish. Your observations are simply conjecture and can not be passed off as scientific fact. If you have extensive experience breeding pygos and you have come up with a way to sex the fish, why dont you write up a paper on the subject and allow it to be mulled over with scientific scrutiny? Then you can make all the claims you like....
 

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I said I will leave my own opinion on ability to sex visually.
Then you are saying your opinion IS FACT, because you are stating you have an ability to sex visually, but you offer no proof other than unsubstantiated claims. I think you are having trouble distinguishing what is real and what is unreal in processing the reality of scientific analysis of sexual dimorphism of species. As I have stated on more than one occasion, if you have a set of piranas and you look at them day in and day out anyone will see differences in their fish. But the proof is when they breed and produce spawn. Just because one is thicker or thinner or larger or smaller does not make it sexually dimorphic because proof of age has not been produced and these fish all develop differently, though they may be the same age.

How am I a teaching tool?
You are seeing an example of it now.
 

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Xenon said:
Nate, clear this up for me: What is your experience breeding pygos?

From what I have been told, there is no sure fire way to sex the fish. Your observations are simply conjecture and can not be passed off as scientific fact. If you have extensive experience breeding pygos and you have come up with a way to sex the fish, why dont you write up a paper on the subject and allow it to be mulled over with scientific scrutiny? Then you can make all the claims you like....
I bred Natts 2 times. Was no big deal though, 1st time about half died, then what was left was used as feeders, lfs didnt need very many and had no room, 2nd time, sold a decent portion to lfs and friends, then rest were feeders again. Been a few years since I havent kept reds much since, I recently was gonna make another go at it but my female died so I sold the male and gave up on Natts

Never did I say anything about fact fellas re-read my posts here, I am not gonna go into this further, I have been there done that, just because there is not absolute 100% way to do it doesnt mean skilled individuals cannot make rather accurate guess with high frequency though, I am in close contact with many major red breeders still and they all agree its not that hard once you have witnessed the whole shpeal and then know what to look for in males and females, Frank even says so on his site. I am far too busy to write a GD science paper, and if I had the time I would spend it doing something profitable

Mike while you are in town we should go to an lfs and I can show you, if the have adults in that arent overfed, that or if BCollins will oblige when can go to his house, I know he has a male and a female, I sold him the male and saw the female he bought. I can show you, once you see what to look for your guess become much easier

I am tired of people putting words in my mouth though, really

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OTHER THAN MY OWN OPINION!

If you want to scrutinize, Frank even agrees whether he knows it or not Click and look 3/4 ways down
 

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If you want to scrutinize, Frank cant even spell Piranha
The spelling you are using is English, my usage is traditional Spanish with out the tilde over the n. I thought someone with your college education and experience on pirana would know the correct incountry spelling? I use this spelling for my own preference, not yours.

Never did I say anything about fact
You are saying you have an ability, that alone points that you are able to tell the sexes, and I'm asking you to produce the proof. The idea that you have no time, etc., etc., etc. indicates to anyone reading you are not able to substantiate your words.

I know he has a male and a female, I sold him the male and saw the female he bought.
. That proves nothing if these fish indeed spawned in the aquario, it simply substantiates what I wrote and has nothing to do with your opinion.

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OTHER THAN MY OWN OPINION!
And now we know that whatever surfaces from your posts at Piranha Fury is nothing more than unmitigated opinion without substance. Just personal observations. That is far more realistic than anything else you have offered.
 

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I really think you make to big of a deal outta the whole thing Frank, yes I know a bit of spanish as well, I am just giving your own nit picking of every single word written

what do you have to say about the link to your own site I provided, and know I have never seen either of those fish spawn so, it is by my own opinion

I have said this before, if you guys want real proof send me about 20 mature natts, I will keep them for 2 weeks and feed very sparingly, then on camera pull them out one at a time and "sex" them then with a knife cut them open and prove to all whether it can be done or not. I bet you would be shocked with the accuracy Frank, I doubt anybody is willing to up the anty, I really dont have a place for that many Natts either, but it can be done.

As for opinion, I take everyones here postings as opinion and you all should as well, in this day and age NOTHING is certain
 

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yes I know a bit of spanish as well
Doesn't compare to having grown up speaking and writing Spanish as I have, Nate. But I will give you the nice recovery after your slip. For your information, I also translate Portuguese, French and German. I was used quite extensively in the military as a translator and had the "L" code in my MOS. For those in the military or once were, they know what "L" code means for that speciality.

As for nit-picking? Nonsense, I'm simpy pointing out to you that in your quest to be a specialist in piranas takes more than just looking at a fish tank. It takes serious study and examining specimens, both live and dead. You are only 21 years of age, yet you have 12 years of experience in fishes. I don't know if that means 12 years keeping guppies or 12 years keeping piranas? Nonetheless, it still indicates to me that your study of these fish is very limited based on your actual knowledge.

I find that when you offer your opinion as something more, then its time for a serious look not only by me but other members as well. You have a nice web site, full of frill and excitement, but the substance itself is something that you really should reconsider if you are ever to be seriously considered for accurate information. A web site full of nothing but opinion will only open you to scutiny by anyone involved in studying piranas either professionally or at the amateur level you are at. And at your web site you offer nothing that indicates it is all opinion. Lastly, it would benefit you (as I have done and others as well), if you would credit people for the information you gather. When I visited your web site, I see no references, no credits other than a few pictures from other people. As I stated to you before, the uninitiated would think you are some kind of scientist without a disclaimer somewhere on your site.
 

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pretty much all that info is mine, and there is quite a bit of prooven fact on my site, I want you to keep in mind the intent of my site is the opposite of yours, it is for keeping piranhas in the home aquarium, I care little of what piranhas do in the wild since you insisit that it is nothing like in an aquarium. I make no illusions on my site, never do I claim to be an expert. I personally prefer to have my site my own info and opinions; as opposed to cluttered with bits and pieces of everybody else's work and papers, hell anybody with alot of free time can do that

Never did I try to say I knew more Spanish than you man, you grew up in a latin culture, I know some German as well.

My definition of a scientist most be very different than yours Frank, I dont see either of us as one. If you choose to attempt to glorify somebody in our hobby a better choice of words would be Aquatic Biologist or something of that nature. Scientist is rather broad in vague and in that case yes I am a scientist, I am a mechanical / materials scientist in the manner that you are a piranha scientist
 

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pretty much all that info is mine, and there is quite a bit of prooven fact on my site
Then please prove these quotes from your web site with cited references:

1) True Piranhas; All four are considered to be dangerous to man. 4 species you have listed are; P. piraya, nattereri, cariba, and ternetzi. Please provide your proof on this ranking.

2) They are characterized by their jaw. Meaning what?

3) Ref: P. nattereri; This is the easiest to breed of all piranha species. says who?

4) This fish contrary to belief is quite shy. This species reaches a size of about 12 inches and reaches maturity at about 6 inches. How do you come up with these sizes and maturity statements? I see nothing so far from items 1-4 this is all opinions or not based on your idea of science, science recognizes P. nattereri attaining 14 U.S. SL inches. Are you saying your measurements are accurate? based on what? Your statements about maturity is also questionable as we have already discussed that here at pfury and it is obvious you are wrong in your opinion.

5) With maturity gold reflective scales appear giving highlights to the dark flank of the fish. Please explain this remark and incorporate how this pertains to other P. nattereri from other localities.

6) This fish is the one that president T. Roosevelt saw on his expeditions. He wrote in his journal of the Cariba and that is how piranhas got their reputation.

Bunk, the fish he saw was P. nattereri, well documented. The piranas got the reputation by newspaper people who accompanied Roosevelt and they were duped by Brazilians who staged the event.

7) Piraya is the largest of piranhas. It has been known to reach lengths over 24 inches in the wild. This species is the most colorful of piranhas.

Nonsense, P. piraya is the largest of the 3 species of true pirana. It has not been known to reach over 24 inches in the wild. That is still supposition. As for the most colorful of the piranas, that is opinion. The rest of what you wrote on the other 2 species covered is mostly pirana aquarium lore.

8) Ternetzi is found in the far south of South America as far as Argentina. Ternetzi's Max size is of question, but it is believed to be around 18 inches.

That is pure bunk as is now well known. Yet, I find it amusing you still include this fish as a separate distinct species when the fish doesn't even exist.

I could easily quote much more from your web site and dissect it for accuracy including your recommendations on what species you think hobbyists should keep. That in itself is incredible and extremely embellished with information.

I am a mechanincal / materials scientist in the manner that you are a piranha scientist
You should then pay more attention to my experience and those who actually know piranas than your own home grown opinions on these matters. It really is beyond your abilities and knowledge since you are limited to mechanical/materials engineering. BTW, I'm going to point out you mis-spelled your own field of expertise.
 

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hastatus said:
pretty much all that info is mine, and there is quite a bit of prooven fact on my site
Then please prove these quotes from your web site with cited references:

1) True Piranhas; All four are considered to be dangerous to man. 4 species you have listed are; P. piraya, nattereri, cariba, and ternetzi. Please provide your proof on this ranking.

2) They are characterized by their jaw. Meaning what?

3) Ref: P. nattereri; This is the easiest to breed of all piranha species. says who?

4) This fish contrary to belief is quite shy. This species reaches a size of about 12 inches and reaches maturity at about 6 inches. How do you come up with these sizes and maturity statements? I see nothing so far from items 1-4 this is all opinions or not based on your idea of science, science recognizes P. nattereri attaining 14 U.S. SL inches. Are you saying your measurements are accurate? based on what? Your statements about maturity is also questionable as we have already discussed that here at pfury and it is obvious you are wrong in your opinion.

5) With maturity gold reflective scales appear giving highlights to the dark flank of the fish. Please explain this remark and incorporate how this pertains to other P. nattereri from other localities.

6) This fish is the one that president T. Roosevelt saw on his expeditions. He wrote in his journal of the Cariba and that is how piranhas got their reputation.

Bunk, the fish he saw was P. nattereri, well documented. The piranas got the reputation by newspaper people who accompanied Roosevelt and they were duped by Brazilians who staged the event.

7) Piraya is the largest of piranhas. It has been known to reach lengths over 24 inches in the wild. This species is the most colorful of piranhas.

Nonsense, P. piraya is the largest of the 3 species of true pirana. It has not been known to reach over 24 inches in the wild. That is still supposition. As for the most colorful of the piranas, that is opinion. The rest of what you wrote on the other 2 species covered is mostly pirana aquarium lore.

8) Ternetzi is found in the far south of South America as far as Argentina. Ternetzi's Max size is of question, but it is believed to be around 18 inches.

That is pure bunk as is now well known. Yet, I find it amusing you still include this fish as a separate distinct species when the fish doesn't even exist.

I could easily quote much more from your web site and dissect it for accuracy including your recommendations on what species you think hobbyists should keep. That in itself is incredible and extremely embellished with information.
OK well if we must lets measure up

1) The 4 listed are all of Pygocentrus which have a larger and much greater size jaw enabling them to inflict a greater injury on their victims as well as the fact that they live in shoals so you not only get bit by one but many

2) Expand?

3)They are the most bred of piranhas in captivity, so it must be easier

4) 14" Natt I would like to see proof of that, a picture with a ruler is proof not some paper saying its so. As far as maturity 6" is a fair estimation, I had a female begin producing eggs at that size, and many piranhas are that size at 2 years of age which you claim as the age for maturity, you are contradicting yourself now

5) Its nothing more than a statement, it doesnt differintiate them from anything


6)I am rather sure I saw video of it and they were Cariba in the video

7)This is true its the largest piranha, the others are just Pirambeba or somethign according to you yet another self contradiction by you

8) Perhaps you should read the pygo page under Ternetzi, I cleary state that science hasnt prooven its a seperate species and that in my opinion I am not sure it is either. And on that note prove to me that it is not a different fish, as Jason told you just because they have the same holotype doesnt make them the same

My recommendations are purely and obviously my own opinion and who are you to say how accurate they are? Can you prove they arent mister "piranha scientist"


what else do have for me? I love trivia.
 
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