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day 7, oct 27

yea thx for the info Aaronic...i learned something new, even though i have been in the hobby 5 or 6 years i didn't know what a sponge filter was until I went to my LFS a few weeks ago.

as far as the breeding tank, not much to report. one of the new reds seems to have kicked one of the original two, a male, out of the little breeding area, sectioned off, the left side of the tank. i guess the new one is taking over as that is the area the strongest one wants. the original male now has the left end of the tank...i did add a little decor to the right 3/4 of the tank, just to establish boundaries and also give them more a sense of security. regardless, the right end of the tank seems to be owned by the male from the original pair, now.

tank temp i steady @ 85 +/-, lol diff thermometers show diff temps, but at least it is steady.

gonna do a massive water change tommorow, we'll see what happens. i've been feeding them quite lightly lately, gonna add some large feeders with the cold water.

quick question...with the water changes simulating the dry/rainy seasons...do you guys replace with cold water right away, or say, empty out 1/2 the tank and leave it that way for several hours or a day or two, then fill it back up with cold water?
 

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I would take out them plastic plants.When/if they do start breeding chances are they will shred them, and possibly eat some of them.My real plants tend to get shredded when they breed.I usually put driftwood over them so they cant chomp them off at the roots.
 

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they will deffinately shread the plants....thats just what they do.......and eating plastic goes on the list of things you don't want to happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
yea, i took out the fake plants, but keeping fake rock in for territories, might even toss some old driftwood back in there. mostly, just a matter of time/patience, i would guess, as i've seen people with bare tanks have their reds breed.

you guys think i should do it tommorow, or postpone a water change tommorow since i changed the tank setup? maybe wait few days for them to settle back in? they seem fine.
 

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did a massive water change, about 50%, with cold water dropping temp about 10 degrees, from 84 to 74, letting it get back up to mid 80's.

also tossed in a bunch of feeders, hadn't been fed well in quite a while.

we'll see what happens
keeping my fingers crossed

you guys are right about a sponge filter being needed, even my wimpy whisper 30 on the 30g fry tank is sucking in a lot of goldfish i am using to keep it cycled, until they breed.

i know patience is the key right now, but wondering IF something happens, when should i expect it? right now they are pretty much just chilling, my being so close to the tank for a while, while doing a water change spooked em a little, i think. male has claimed back his territory, but the other 3 are huddled in the middle.
 

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For the moment, don't even really think about it when to expect it, just let it happen. More so then not it'll just happen out of nowhere, as if it was luck striking. Don't move anything around in the tank, just leave it the way it is. I find that moving things around a lot lengthens the time for them to get really settled in. As they start settle in, they should get used to your presence being in the room, also because of that face that you're the hand that feeds them. I have this theory about water quality in nature when it's the dry season; I believe that the water gets real dirty, parameter wise and then when the rains start, its kind of like a BIG water change that cleans the water. Maybe you could try not doing any water changes on the tank for a couple weeks, keeping up with feedings, then do a massive water change, like 75%. How often do you feed your breeders?
 

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Thats basically how much I feed my reds, all of them, just enough to bulge their stomachs, then I remove whatever food is left.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
day 11, oct 31st

not much going on, just gotta move stuff around a tiny bit, they knock over some of the fake rock/decor, so gonna use something heavier to weigh it down.

they are all nice and dark, which is a good sign, because the original pair is/was usually much lighter than the new two reds.

for anyone that has heard of, or in the future might use coconut fiber, as to have them lay eggs on it, in my experience it has been worse using it, than not. it has clogged some of my filters, and the male was trying to eat it, not a good sign.
 

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for the plastic plants i use lead weights along with the gravel in the pan so if it is knocked out of the substrate the lead weights still hold it down
 

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i'm going a bit crazy with all the advice i am getting, pulling my hair out. some people are emphasizing privacy/no distractions for them to breed. my reds are in plain site of me at my computer, few hours minimum a day. i dunno if i should go back to covering the tank with garbage bags or what? you guys think they might breed with me in the same room and in plain sight? i'm sitting about 7 or 8 feet away though and they don't get startled unless i go right up to the tank.

or am i just worrying too much and they will breed when they want to?

i'm leaning towards just leaving the setup as it is now, and at least give them a few weeks, or even a month.
 

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You are doing way too much change for the fish. This is exactly what I did when I bought a breeding pair and it worked like a charm:

Set up the tank with some natural gravel. Put 2 peices of driftwood in. Put only the 2 breeding fish in the tank (75g). I slightly under dosed PH 6.5 to keep the ph a little lower...

Once that was done, I waited, and waited, and after 3 weeks sure enough they bred. Stick with the basics, stop changing everything around, and if you think other fish are interfering with the breeding pair, get rid of them.

If this doesn't work, I would question if this pair ever bred before.
 

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ya thx, gonna keep it this way, the setup i have had for the past few days and see what happens, not moving anything. i think the fake rock decor, dividing the tank up into thirds, is good enough for now. i've seen people breed em in bare tanks as well.

i'm prolly trying too hard, so i'm gonna keep what i have setup for at least a month or so, only thing doing water changes to simulate the wet/dry seasons. gonna keep all four in there as well, as the one i was told is the original male, is still pretty much top of the pecking order.

pretty much they'll breed when they want to...
 

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yeap, they'll breed when they're good and ready. patience my friend, patience. you're getting so caught up in them that you just want to do everything to get them to breed, but all you gotta do is wait. trust that once they do start breeding, you'll have your hands full with things to do.
 

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After reasing through the entire Breeding Forum I found that there are one of two sides that every breeder stands on.
One is the "Don't do water changes for 1-2 weeks. rinse and repeat."
The other is "10-20% water changes every or every other day."

Well, I have personally used both methods and found that of the 2 breeding pairs I have atm, a while back when I first started trying to breed them, each pair preferred a different one.

I hope that gets someone thinking anyways.
 
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