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Yup, was pretty impressive.

But I would be ashamed if my government was responsable for such devastation.
I guess tomorrow we'll learn more about the scale of the damage inflicted and also about civilians losses (we Europeans that is: I highly doubt CNN or other US-controlled media will broadcast much, if all, about civilian casualties and collateral damage...
)
 

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Razorlips said:
The way I look at is that Saddam is the one responsible for those lives lost.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that: Bush and his close associates are the only ones to blame for every single dead civilian: they are the ones that warrant bombing, and should be hold responsable for the consequences (not that that will ever happen, unfortunately...)
 

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Serrapygo said:
Judazzz said:
I wholeheartedly disagree with that: Bush and his close associates are the only ones to blame for every single dead civilian: they are the ones that warrant bombing, and should be hold responsable for the consequences (not that that will ever happen, unfortunately...)
And who is responsible for over 3000 lives lost on 9/11? Terrorist that's who.
Who sponsors terrorism and murders, rapes and starves his own people? Saddam Hussien. That's who.

But no! let's blame George W. Bush!
I admit that remark lacked nuance: let's just say I was still in shock and awe of what I just saw on the television :
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But still: You want to eradicate al qaeda (and everyone linked) for killing 3000 innocent people in New York. That's fine, I'm the last one to say you don't have the right to do so. The did a horrible thing, and should be punished for that!
But on the other hand, the US (and the rest of the Coalition) army also killed 35.000 innnocent civilians (and those weren't all used by Saddam as a human shield: many of them died in bomb shelters...) during the first Gulf War, and got away with it (and it will be no different this time, even if you would carpet bomb Bagdad to ruble, or even use nuclear weapons).

I hope you all can see/understand my point: it's all very paradoxical to me. I mean, who is America to determine for the rest of the world what is wrong and what is right, to be global judge with the right to say "this and that mass murders are un-acceptable, and this and that aren't"?

This whole thing is a matter of opinion, and I agree to a certain degree that Saddam is to blame for what's going on at the moment, but in my eyes it's not just him. Also the ones responsible for war (Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld and all others). Terrible bloodsheds have and are being commited in their name, and I personally think none of them should get away with it: not Saddam Hussein, nor George Bush or Tony Blair.
That's my opinion, and no one here can change that. I have my own vision on current events, you have yours...
 

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USMC*sPiKeY* said:
US/British forces march into baghdad, like Saddam expects them too. US intelligence says that Saddam has nuclear/bio/chem weapons but is nowhere to be found. Saddam has the entire city of baghdad boobie trapped into giant nuclear weapon. US/British forces march into baghdad, Saddam presses button and entire city goes up in mushroom cloud....Saddam gets last laugh
Yeah, that's what I've been thinking about also: pretty nasty scenario, but I'm affraid it's pretty much possible :sad: Let's just hope it won't get that far...

And also, I don't think Bagdad is nearly empty: many people may have left the city, but I really think there are at least 2 million people or so still there (and that would mean that 60% of the entire population already has left, which seems very high to me...)

Neo: of course genocide it on the "naughty list", but I believe that's one the least sincere/true reasons the US gave as a reason for attacking Iraq...... It's great pr to stress it all the time, but I think the Bush administration but have preferred an Iraq without Kurds altogether (not wiped of the face of the earth, of course, but that they would be living elsewhere): they are a hidden bomb that is very likely to explode when events unfold in Iraq. There are already five different parties involved in Northern Iraq (Kurds, Turks, Americans, Iraqi and Iran-orientated terrorist organisations), which make it a potential "war in a war"... And that's one of the things the US probably gave much thought about, but they simply can't control what will happen. And there are more items like this that the US can't control fully: and that makes it such a high risk war, with potentially far-reaching consequences not only for the direct region... And that's a thing the US can be held responsable for at least partly, because they are the ones who set the whole thing in motion by starting the war...
That's what's worrying me most (the unforseen consequences that may affect much more than just the people involved in the war), and what is one of the main reasons why I'm still not in favor of this war.

And I agree that the US, being the most powerful nation in the world, and indeed the last superpower on earth, has a lot of worldwide responsabilities, but that doesn't mean it has the right to disrespect and ignore international conventions, agreements and mandates... (I'm talking about [geo-]political as well as military topics here).
If that kind of behaviour and policy is acceptable, than the US is pretty much free to do whatever it pleases, whenever it pleases (and to me that's a pretty frightening idea)
 
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