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Yup, was pretty impressive.

But I would be ashamed if my government was responsable for such devastation.
I guess tomorrow we'll learn more about the scale of the damage inflicted and also about civilians losses (we Europeans that is: I highly doubt CNN or other US-controlled media will broadcast much, if all, about civilian casualties and collateral damage...
)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sure, I feel for the innocent lives lost. We use precision guided weapons to help limit that. The way I look at is that Saddam is the one responsible for those lives lost. He's the one who had the choice and he chose to put his country and it's people at risk.

There was just no other way. We've waited long enough. You would have to be American to understand fully what it's like to offer your life so that others can live in a free world. We would do it for any country. I'm sure we do have some alterior motives in this but Iraq will know a freedom they've never had.
 

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Razorlips said:
The way I look at is that Saddam is the one responsible for those lives lost.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that: Bush and his close associates are the only ones to blame for every single dead civilian: they are the ones that warrant bombing, and should be hold responsable for the consequences (not that that will ever happen, unfortunately...)
 

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...just back for a bit to catch up...
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still waiting for the massive land invasion envisioned by the pentagon big boys
.....NOW that would be a true piece of work.....air attack isn't that impressive anymore
 

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Judazzz said:
Razorlips said:
The way I look at is that Saddam is the one responsible for those lives lost.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that: Bush and his close associates are the only ones to blame for every single dead civilian: they are the ones that warrant bombing, and should be hold responsable for the consequences (not that that will ever happen, unfortunately...)
No way. Saddam Hussein is liable for every single life lost. There would have been zero deaths if he gave up. But he chose to stay and fight. He has absolutely no problems letting the Iraqi people die, it wouldn't surprise me if many of the civilian deaths were caused by using them as "shields". If Bush is to blame for them, then we'll never have peace anywhere because doing the right thing is now wrong.
 

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I agree. Judazz, if Saddam wasnt killing his own people and treating them like garbage we wouldnt be over there. Liberation of iraq is worth the collateral damage. Oh and by the way judazz, tell the queen thanx for the back up. (Not that we needed it, we're the US fuckin A!)
 

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No way. Saddam Hussein is liable for every single life lost. There would have been zero deaths if he gave up. But he chose to stay and fight. He has absolutely no problems letting the Iraqi people die, it wouldn't surprise me if many of the civilian deaths were caused by using them as "shields".
 

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Judazzz said:
I wholeheartedly disagree with that: Bush and his close associates are the only ones to blame for every single dead civilian: they are the ones that warrant bombing, and should be hold responsable for the consequences (not that that will ever happen, unfortunately...)
And who is responsible for over 3000 lives lost on 9/11? Terrorist that's who.
Who sponsors terrorism and murders, rapes and starves his own people? Saddam Hussien. That's who.

But no! let's blame George W. Bush!
 

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I think something had to be done about Saddam. However, would we be at this point now if Iraq's leading export was tobacco instead of oil?
 

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winkyee said:
I think something had to be done about Saddam. However, would we be at this point now if Iraq's leading export was tobacco instead of oil?
Does that matter? No, because the point is something is being done about this maniac and it's long over due.
 

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red devils red said:
i feel sorry for sadamns regime :sad: there gonna be wiped off the face of this EARTH!
I hope you were being sarcastic with that statement.

As for civilians deaths, look at it from this point of view. Had we not gone to war, Saddam would have killed off his own civilians. But now that we are going to war, we kill civilians, YES, BUT nearly not as many had we not gone to war and let Saddam kill them. I think people would be more greatful to die knowing that people were out there trying to help and save their country from a mad man, than dying through outrageous death acts ordered by Saddam and his military men. What Saddam is doing to his people is cruel and inhumane. He is a tyrant and needs to be killed or in my eyes, needs to be put through all the sh!t he put his people through.
 

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.pocketful of sunshine.
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winkyee said:
However, would we be at this point now if Iraq's leading export was tobacco instead of oil?
Lets get one thing straight here-- THIS WAR IS NOT ABOUT THE OIL
Now let me explain myself. First of all, 2/3 of our oil comes from domestic, meaning places like California, Texas, Alaska, etc]. The other third comes from places like Mexico, Venezuela, etc. Not from Iraq! We could careless if all of Iraq oil fields went ablaze--why?? Because of the above statement as to where we get our oil from. We know that one of the only ways Iraq can prosper is to have those oil fields, which is why were liberating them, and getting rid of their tyrant. Next time people say that this war is about oil--think again...and do some research.
 

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As far as civilian lives lost...that is something that is unpreventable. The people of Iraq were warned by leaflets dropped from the sky, to leave bagdad.

Had the bastards from the 9/11 tragedy warned us, I am positive, there would have been minimal to no loss of civilian life. We warned these people and if they chose not to leave, for their own prerogative, then I do not feel bad for them.

...then again, had they warned us, the Twin Towers would still be there.
 

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wolfman said:
Yes, you are correct, Neo......but unfortunately, they did not take it as a serious threat.
Yeah that had signs but whoever was in charge could not connect the dots.... I cant even imagine how hard it would be in the world of intelligence to collate all the possible leads to one big picture. Well, it was their job and they failed... :sad:
 

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Serrapygo said:
Judazzz said:
I wholeheartedly disagree with that: Bush and his close associates are the only ones to blame for every single dead civilian: they are the ones that warrant bombing, and should be hold responsable for the consequences (not that that will ever happen, unfortunately...)
And who is responsible for over 3000 lives lost on 9/11? Terrorist that's who.
Who sponsors terrorism and murders, rapes and starves his own people? Saddam Hussien. That's who.

But no! let's blame George W. Bush!
I admit that remark lacked nuance: let's just say I was still in shock and awe of what I just saw on the television :
:

But still: You want to eradicate al qaeda (and everyone linked) for killing 3000 innocent people in New York. That's fine, I'm the last one to say you don't have the right to do so. The did a horrible thing, and should be punished for that!
But on the other hand, the US (and the rest of the Coalition) army also killed 35.000 innnocent civilians (and those weren't all used by Saddam as a human shield: many of them died in bomb shelters...) during the first Gulf War, and got away with it (and it will be no different this time, even if you would carpet bomb Bagdad to ruble, or even use nuclear weapons).

I hope you all can see/understand my point: it's all very paradoxical to me. I mean, who is America to determine for the rest of the world what is wrong and what is right, to be global judge with the right to say "this and that mass murders are un-acceptable, and this and that aren't"?

This whole thing is a matter of opinion, and I agree to a certain degree that Saddam is to blame for what's going on at the moment, but in my eyes it's not just him. Also the ones responsible for war (Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld and all others). Terrible bloodsheds have and are being commited in their name, and I personally think none of them should get away with it: not Saddam Hussein, nor George Bush or Tony Blair.
That's my opinion, and no one here can change that. I have my own vision on current events, you have yours...
 

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Well last time I checked genocide was on the naughty list. :smile:

I actually think the US is almost delegated the responsibility of handling issues like this. They truly are the only super power left with the fall of the Soviet Union, China's on their way up but that's a little unsettling. So it's kind of implied that they get involved. Yeah sure they rarely get involved when they don't have other interests, but that only makes sense doesn't it? Besides, it doesn't take a room full of geniuses to figure out how horrible Saddam and his posse are, it just would be nice if that room full of geniuses would figure that out.
 
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