[rosecityrhom]

I would like to know everyone's thoughts on this issue. I write this because I was a newbie and on many issues still am. For the newb's should speach be more technical in using the words...In My Opinion, From My Observations, or This is What I Think, or even My Recommendation would be...? Often I've seen people write down opinions without specifying that they are in fact just opinions...I'm not trying to slam anyone on here but I think it would just be beneficial for all of us(especially new members) if we included this speach when what we say is based purely on opinion and observations of our own piranha's.

 

[piranha198220]

what i think is what ever anyone says on here is based on there opinon un less its said by a scientist

 

[piranha198220]

by the way shouldent this be in the Suggestion Box

 

[rosecityrhom]

True...but many new people to the board may not understand this. They may simply feel that we're here and know all there is to know about piranha's and take what people say as fact rather than opinion.

 

[rosecityrhom]

Then Xenon can put it into the suggestion box. I placed it where I thought there would be the most traffic

 

[SnowCichlid.]

I selected "don't care" ... not that im am saying I do not care but rather when it comes to your opinion... its your choice, and how you choose to present yourself here is also your choice as long as it is done apropriatly

 

[rosecityrhom]

I was simply doing this for any new people to piranha's and this forum. I know that when I first joined I took what people said to me as truth and it was not until I began to notice a varience in what people had to say about the same thing when I saw they were just opinions. Its different for a person who's new to piranha's to listen to what others say about certain issues then someone who has a clear opinion and/or belief to discern between fact and opinion. Just the other day I saw a post where someone was reading through a site and they asked a question about a serrasalmus nattereri. All I was aiming it was assisting new people at discerning whats opinion and what is a a fact or highly agreed to belief. Do you think that is beneficial?

 

[rosecityrhom]

This poll apparantly is not drawing a wide discussion like I thought it would. Oh well, I know its everyone's choice to write however they like. This is for all the newbies to piranha's or this board...I'm sure you've seen or will see that much of what is written is purely on a hobbyist level and about opinions and observations of our own tanks of piranha. Enjoy the site and if you want scientific data consult OPEFE!!!

 

[RhomZilla]

I selected "don't care" ... not that im am saying I do not care but rather when it comes to your opinion... its your choice, and how you choose to present yourself here is also your choice as long as it is done apropriatly

Im with Snow on this one... I wouldn't mind what any newbie (or anyone) has to say, unless its words of disrespect or offensive to others. Opinions are passed down from one person to another, and its up to that person to decipher the real truth.

 

[rosecityrhom]

I was talking about what a newbie may read in threads to be opinions and not stated as such and the newbie thinking its the truth because they view or may view the person that wrote it as much more knowledgable and therefor what they say must be right. But this apparently doesn't bother anyone else besides me.

 

[Sir Nathan XXI]

this is one thing that gets on my nerves, I dont think I should have to say every time "In my opinion" people are really starting to read too much into things on here, I believe the avg Joe that reads the stuff knows that is just someones opinion, and in most cases will search to see if it can be colaberated, if so they might start to believe you, there are a few individuals around that make a big fuss over, providing facts and references, people its just an opinion, if somebody that NEEDS the info whats the reference let them ask, otherwise what do you care, you already have your opinion on the matter

really folks this is the internet, by this point you need to realize not everyone on the net knows or or speaks the truth

 

[Xenon]

Moved to Suggestion Box.

 

[rosecityrhom]

Ok then...end of discussion. Nothing had to change or will. No one sees what I was really trying to say but whatever.

 

[hastatus]

Opinions are passed down from one person to another, and its up to that person to decipher the real truth.

Interesting view with a few major holes in it. Anyone who old enough to remember S. niger controversy (which still exists to this day) was a highly opinionated topic. Much like that of S. ternetzi was until recently. I recall emails by GuClu of Piranha.org attesting to S. niger existence and mentioned he would have DNK done on it. Neither Bill Fink or I knew what DNK was but obviously it was a spelling error or he just didn't know the letters are DNA. I remember many heated debates and flaming (as was mentioned here by a poster, done towards me) because I published the actual information about S. niger. This was sacrilege to the true believer in this species that was heightened by writings of some very popular hobbyists whe kept large piranas in the home aquario and this gave S. niger more credibility. Problem was, the fish didn't exist. Yes, I was flamed repeatedly much like some recent ones a Predatory Fish which I'm sure Darren (Neoplasia) can attest to over S. ternetzi. Did I want to be flamed ? Of course not, but when scientists and hobbyist meet, hobbyists hold tight to what they view in their home aquario as facts (for them) while scientist look at things clinically (not pessimistically, as recently stated). We keep an open mind and question every little detail to form an opinion supported by evidence. Without evidence, it is just words with no substance, therefore opinion is reduced to ashes or worse foolishness. But mature adults listen to opinion and form their own ideas from it without malice or attempts to discredit, yet use known information to help form better opinions which are supported. As for my talking down to people, I had no idea that words on a message board exhibit any kind of emotion. Doug (fishman2) mentioned to me that people become highly emotional over a few sentences, and I have to agree with him judging from what I have seen repeatedly over the years in message boards.

As for this being the internet and talk here should be taken with a grain of salt, probably so, however, when the talk is backed up with published research from scientist in the field then where is the argument?

 

[traumatic]

I disagreed
You can't protect what people think or interpret about what someone says, may it be opinion or fact. Honestly why do you care. Sure you want people to believe you or take your word for it. Would you want to convince them you are right or dissuade them into thinking they should go elsewhere for information. Or old faithful, let them take it for what it its.

Intelligence is a virtue you can't prescribe.

 

[rosecityrhom]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything that I say to be truth. You misinterpret this poll and thread. i just thought it would be beneficial for new people to see words like in my opinion when it is in fact just an opinion. That was my only objective of this thread...I could care less about someone believing what I have to say as truth and believe me...thats why I usually say in my opinion. Like I will say now...in my opinion this thread is not useful as I was hoping it would be.

 

[hastatus]

Honestly why do you care.

Because that is why I'm involved with piranas all my life. It is not a game to me, it is my life's blood, my passion. Giving out information based on science is also a passion because so much erroneous information has been published about piranas. I have met the tiger (Fish and Wildlife) and it is because of these people and others like them that prohibit pirana possession because of bad information. When I read about how hobbyists perceive their fish in the aquario as a killing machine, do you have any idea how this forms opinions in the unknowing minds or in situations where this board is being visited by DNR people to see if they can create new laws which can be cited by hobbyist information? That is a fine line, one that cannot be ignored, not by me anyway.

People can choose to believe what they want, that is their right. However, I would not be of any value if all I did was sit back and not offer what I know to be supported by evidence. But if you would prefer I do that instead, I can accommodate you and this forum will simply revert to the same nonsense posts that have plagued other pirana message boards.

Arguments continue to surface and misunderstanding too because some hobbyists use their home aquarium as tools to say certain things happen there. I have no problem with that so long as it is generalized. However, I also find when reading that certain statements are made which are not generalized and are written to make it appear that is how piranas normally behave in nature. That is where I step in to pull in the reins and separate what you see in home aquario and what is seen in nature.

Mike (Xenon) asked for my input here from a scientific level. If this is to much for some of you, then perhaps I can step back and allow the discussion to go unchecked with bogus claims and unsupported evidence based on 2 or 3 little piranas in the home tank.
And before the wrong idea is taken, I'm not angered by this, I'm simply retired and don't need the headaches LOL.

 

[Xenon]

Well said Frank. This is EXACTLY the reason that this board is split between "Piranha Hobby" and "Piranha Science" because the differences are obvious. The hobby relies heavily on observation and opinion, while the science is about fact and evidence. My suggestion to all of the users here is to choose between the categories carefully for the types of questions you want answered. If you want a factual, evidence supported answers please post in piranha science and Frank and some of the other leading minds in this field will answer. Piranha Hobby is mainly a place for people to share their experiences and observations, yet this does not give people carte blanche to give out misinformation. I count on the more experienced members of this board to call people out on misinformation because it is damaging to the hobby, and to newbies. When I say "call people out" I in know way mean flame, simply providing an differing opinion (supported by sources or not) so newbies can choose who they believe based on the information presented. The responsibility of both sides of the argument is allow both sides to be heard and allow the arguments presented in the posts provided to be information enough to sway people one way or another. There is no reason to get in flame wars about this.

It is a privledge to have Frank be on this board providing us his great insight. I know a lot of people here recognize this, but I still think many more members need to. Pfury has been a success thus far due to many reasons, and I am certain one of those reasons is Franks participation in the site.

If you want to adjust your writing technique fine, but I suggest adjusting your method of thinking more. Be mindful of which forums you are posting in and be aware that your "opinions" and "observations" could be raked over the coals in front of true scientific fact. Nobody should take offense to this. They should learn from this.

My 2 cents. Mike.

 

[bobme]

i dont care, it just shows how smart some one is or how dumb they are.

 

[traumatic]

I was talking about what a newbie may read in threads to be opinions and not stated as such and the newbie thinking its the truth because they view or may view the person that wrote it as much more knowledgable and therefor what they say must be right. But this apparently doesn't bother anyone else besides me.

my point being based on this statement.