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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
same species, but they come from different places in Brazil....


Yep, as you know the reds belly are red and a tern's is yellow. Other than that, simply a different varity of Pygo.
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OK then fire help me out here...... lol..... which are mine?? Thjey have alwayws been mostly yellow (gold) but my 1 shows a little red and this is only once in a blue moon. Check out my pics in the pic forum.
When I first got them I was told they were terns.

thanx

Smilez,
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I will be right back to answer, off to the pic forum I go!

Humm, one looks like a red and the other looks like a tern to me. How big are they? Are they normally that color, or was it simple the time of day (color swing)? They appear very dark to me, is that their normal color throughout the day?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I will be right back to answer, off to the pic forum I go!

Humm, one looks like a red and the other looks like a tern to me. How big are they? Are they normally that color, or was it simple the time of day (color swing)? They appear very dark to me, is that their normal color throughout the day?
One is 7 inch the other 8 inch long about 2 inch thick.
They are a dark olive green color with gold flakes thruought their bodies.
The 8 inch one shows a little red.. but only once in a while not very often... I dont know if you seen all 3 pics.. they were listed side by side instead on top of each other.

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Yes, I saw all three pics (side by side). The middle one was a bit dark on my screen, but I got the jist from the other two. That dark olive green color with gold flakes is normal as pygos grow in home aquaria. Normally, "home grown" piranha are much darker than wild piranha which tend to be a much more colorful silver/gold/red/etc.

My question was almost based around if they seem to be pairing up. From the pics they seem to be hitting breeding color. They are much darker IMO than the normal red/tern. Since they are 7"-8" they are at least one year old. I belive that "Fry"'s Cujo was eight months old when he started reproducing. Then again, that was just a thought.

When your 8" pygo does not show red, what color does he display? Does he even have color, or is it yellow (i.e. Tern)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
They both show yellow.

They have been pairing up for some time now.. At first when I got them they stayed apart one on each side of the tank... but for the last month they ave been staying together.

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terns also get larger

they both look like reds to me
what did they look like at 2-4in?
terns are really yellow as juvi's
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
terns also get larger

they both look like reds to me
what did they look like at 2-4in?
terns are really yellow as juvi's
I havent had them long..... just a few months... but they have gotten bigger since I first got them and are 100% healthier. They had hardly any fins and busted up jaws.
Like I said before on my one(pacco) he only shows red once in a while... not often... usually yellow all other time also with "orbit" he/she always yellow!

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Okay, you say yellow, then you say green, then you say red. I didn't look at your pics, but #1. Ternetzi from Uruguay are the green variant, they will show no yallow #2. Ternetzi from Argentina are the yellow variant, and go a pale to white color sometimes, but never a green. #3 If you have a fish showing red, ir's a red, unless you have cariba, but I am sure that you would know if you had that. I will look at the pics.

Uhh....hate to tell ya, and I'm not 100% sure, but they all look like reds to me. I see no characteristics of terns what so ever. Sry. Looks like others in your pics thread felt the same way too!!!

I think the yellow you are seeing is being confused with a pale white belly of a red when color is at a loss. And if you say they are pairing up, again another sign of them being reds. My breeders bellies never have red anymore. Once they breed, they are either pitch black when ready to breed, or pale ass white when they aren't.
 

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OK then fire help me out here...... lol..... which are mine?? Thjey have alwayws been mostly yellow (gold) but my 1 shows a little red and this is only once in a blue moon. Check out my pics in the pic forum.
When I first got them I was told they were terns.
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OK Here is the answer for you.
Ternetzi is really one (of many) geographical form of Pygocentrus nattereri. It is a southern form, from Paraguay (not from Argentina). These populations are commonly yellow or even yellow-orange bellied. The coloration does not, however, determine the origin, only the river where they come from.

To be sure, Modsboss, you need to know where they came from.

Harry

PS.
And lastly, here is a straight quotation form the page's of
OPEFE:

Géry et al. (1987) listed several characteristics that they took to indicate that southern and Amazonian populations represent different species, suggesting that the southern species retain the name P. nattereri and placing S. ternetzi as a junior synonym of the former. Paraguay specimens were thought to be different from Amazonian specimens in several features, including red pigment absent from the belly (based on their examination of about 100 specimens from Paraguay), greater convexity of the head, shorter and larger snout, distance between the nares larger eye diameter, and "probably" with a larger number of serrae and more scales (13 specimens were used for counts and measurements). Fink (1993) investigated photographs taken in Paraguay and Brazil. These photographs confirm that individuals in these populations do have reduced pigmentation on the belly, relative to most Amazonian fishes; however the amount of pigment, usually orange or yellow-orange, falls within the variation found in Amazon area populations. Also, Fink was unable to confirm any of the suppositions pertaining to body shape and meristics. He wrote that those authors probably did not take into account individual and population differences with their small analyzed samples. The convexity of the head shape of these southern populations is difficult to quantify. Fink found no difference in head shapes from the southern populations and Amazonian populations. Visual comparisons also did not confirm differences in head convexity. Snout length did appear to be short in large individuals from the southern populations, but it was not significantly different from the Amazonian population.

Fink, in order to determine if there were any potential discriminators, measured snout length using a sub-sample of both populations of over 60 specimens of equal size and he found no statistical differences in slopes or intercepts of regression of snout length on SL. Distance between the nares being less than or larger than the eye, used by Géry et al. (1987). Géry used a comparison that conflates head width and eye size, one showing positive allometry and one negative allometry (interorbital width). Fink found no differences between southern and Amazonian populations in interorbital width or eye size in the specimens Fink used (determined by slopes and intercepts of each measured in a linear regression on SL). The prepelvic counts were also compared and the numbers garnered from that do not support a hypothesis for independent evolution in those groups.
 
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