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Interbreeding Is it possible?

Posted 10 March 2011 - 05:19 PM (#21) User is offline   r1dermon 

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i wonder whatever happened with this? any new evidence to talk about? does anyone have info? this would be an awesome topic.

Posted 12 March 2011 - 03:05 PM (#22) User is offline   memento 

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Good bump Bruner.

This seems to be very outdated. By now we differentiate spilos from macs and the moment we did that, spawnings happened. Orti and Freeman has shown us, rhombeus is a complex form of at least three different DNA strings. So not a product of interbreeding, but a complex that has not been differentiated yet.

I do not believe interbreeding is possible. In nature, it usually is impossible to get a fertile offspring from interbreeding.

I'm more led to believe that the lack of breeding succes, is mainly caused by us trying to interbreed species we consider the same. Like rhoms. One should not even try breeding them, as long as we know three different strings of DNA in one "species".

Regarding the question if terns and reds can be interbred : technically it would not be interbreeding, for they are considered the same species. There is howver always the possibility they are evolving into different species. They are two populations that have been separated for centuries. They will adapt to their natural habitat and that can lead to diversication.

We'll just need more DNA research for this matter.
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Posted 12 March 2011 - 04:44 PM (#23) User is offline   BRUNER247 

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Thanks combi at least a couple members were interested. I've found a few old topics that I wouldn't mind bumping up, but I figured some would cry about it. Shame we don't re-visit some of these ancient threads. Imo anyhow.
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Posted 12 March 2011 - 04:51 PM (#24) User is offline   CLUSTER ONE 

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View PostBRUNER247, on 12 March 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

Thanks combi at least a couple members were interested. I've found a few old topics that I wouldn't mind bumping up, but I figured some would cry about it. Shame we don't re-visit some of these ancient threads. Imo anyhow.

This is pretty interesting. I don't think anybody will care if stuff like this i bumped. People get annoyed when some topic from years ago on "what to feed my p's?" or some other question that now makes no difference to anybody really is bumped.
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Posted 12 March 2011 - 05:00 PM (#25) User is offline   memento 

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Problem with topics like this, is that it's more about science then hobby... and that usually is a conflict on a hobby forum.

And of course, some things are hard to update since there is still no complete DNA research including all species.
A while ago I started a topic about an expected revision of the Pritsobrycon genus. Looking at the Freeman and Orti researches, I believe Pristobrycon should be revised into a genus with only striolatus in it, with the other now accepted species being moved into the Serrasalmus genus.

I had to agree completely with something Frank remarked though : not all species are included in that research, so we should be carefull with assumptions and conclusions...
"There are two aspects of life: science, and the rest. In the first only logics is at work.
Subjectivity, sentiment, ideology, friendship, etc. has nothing to do with it."

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 06:46 PM (#26) User is offline   BRUNER247 

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We need a fund for some piranha DNA work. Lol
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Posted 12 March 2011 - 07:49 PM (#27) User is offline   Johnny_Zanni 

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View PostBRUNER247, on 12 March 2011 - 06:46 PM, said:

We need a fund for some piranha DNA work. Lol


I agree.

Careospinus I believe belongs in the Serrasalmus genus...

Posted 12 March 2011 - 10:57 PM (#28) User is offline   Piranha-Freak101 

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Very interesting thread
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Posted 13 March 2011 - 05:57 AM (#29) User is offline   memento 

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Both the Orti and the Freeman phylogeny show very clear that P.striolatus, P.denticulata and C.mento are closer related to one another, while P.calmoni and P.aureus were closer related to the Serrasalmus genus.
Of course careospinus and macullipinnis were that new, they were not included in the research. So it indeed is hard to jump to conclusions, for morphologically those two resemble striolatus closer - they also lack a preanal spine and ectopterygoïd teeth.

Raise that fund... you guys have the biggest access to the species of the world ! While over here it is even impossible for me to collect preserved specimen for comparison, simply because most specimen are not even there !
"There are two aspects of life: science, and the rest. In the first only logics is at work.
Subjectivity, sentiment, ideology, friendship, etc. has nothing to do with it."

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 06:24 PM (#30) User is offline   jp80911 

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would this be a possible hybrid?

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 06:44 PM (#31) User is offline   memento 

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No. Though it might be an interesting one for the S.eigenmanni / P.aureus studies :rockon:
"There are two aspects of life: science, and the rest. In the first only logics is at work.
Subjectivity, sentiment, ideology, friendship, etc. has nothing to do with it."

Jacques Géry.
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Posted 18 March 2011 - 02:05 PM (#32) User is offline   Inflade 

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excellent bump!
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Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:43 PM (#33) User is offline   RedBellyKing 

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even though this is years old i am extremely interested in this subject :wootwoot: so could somebody please give us some 2014 updates

Posted 16 May 2014 - 10:21 PM (#34) User is offline   BRUNER247 

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Be nice huh. Nothings gonna change if nobody is working on it.
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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:26 PM (#35) User is offline   memento 

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There isn't much to update I'm afraid.
Even new species descriptions once boasted about, seem to be pending for over 2 years now.
Apparently even the scientists came to agree that taxonomy is such a big mess, new descriptions or revisions should be postponed untill sufficiënt DNA research has been involved to clear up the mess.

As for the interbreeding topic - well why not. After all the entire family of Serrasalmids has different origins than the ones we took for facts.
"There are two aspects of life: science, and the rest. In the first only logics is at work.
Subjectivity, sentiment, ideology, friendship, etc. has nothing to do with it."

Jacques Géry.
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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:15 PM (#36) User is offline   Dairy Whip 

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Interesting stuff.
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