[acestro]

This is a good, honest question that has been asked by those that don't know. As opposed to bashing those that don't know or not catching future people from releasing fish, we have this thread!

This question should seriously be addressed on this board.

The angle to look at it from is the ecosystem level. An ecosystem and it's species can be affected in quite a few ways by introductions of fish...

1. new parasites brought into the system
2. they eat native fish (or their eggs, etc.)
3. they are toxic/spiny/bad to eat and are eaten by native animals
4. they outcompete natives for food
5. they outcompete natives for habitat
6. they hybridize with native fish (disturb natural gene pool)
7. the list can go on and on....

Hope this helps! And please spread the word that releasing fish is a very bad idea.

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[CrocKeeper]

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Question... why is a tank raised fish a threat to a community of wild fish... id think the tank fish would be happy and quickly adapting... not a menace... any insight as to why would be great 

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Posted on Feb 7 2004, 08:21 PM
  That's a good, honest question. Actually one that should seriously be addressed on this board.

I think you're thinking about it from the wrong angle. The angle to look at it from is the ecosystem level. An ecosystem and it's species can be affected in quite a few ways by introductions of fish...

1. new parasites brought into the system
2. they eat native fish (or their eggs, etc.)
3. they are toxic/spiny/bad to eat and are eaten by native animals
4. they outcompete natives for food
5. they outcompete natives for habitat
6. they hybridize with native fish (disturb natural gene pool)
7. the list can go on and on....

Hope this helps! And please spread the word that releasing fish is a very bad idea.

As Acestro said, an honest question.

His list is also very complete, and is expandable...
Bottom line is when something is captive for any length of time even repatriation, releasing back into it's own eco-systems, is a methodically well thought out action, and is never taken lightly. Most "released" species die. Unfortunately as Acestro said they sometimes bring with them parasites, potentials that the introduced animal dies, but the introduced parasite does not is all too real. Let's say it is not even an exotic species that is released, say a native, but from an all together different area of the Country/province/state what-have-you....then if it does survive, and even if it does not bring a potential parasite with it, it does bring genetics that were never meant to be there foreever altering that population.
Released animals are bad news, and are also a reason for many species being prohibited in areas. The "release it" attitude is exactly why Pirahna are illegal in so many US states, for fear people will do just that. It is an irresponsible, potentially FAR reaching action that proves to Federal/State/County/Municipal legislative bodies that hobbyists should be heavily regulated and many taxa prohibited because they do not regulate themselves. It also is the type of action that raises insurance rates and premiums for those that apply themselves to attaining permits for "prohibited" taxa.
This is a subject that to say I feel strongly about is an understatement, and is truly not even adequately covered here, but I hope that it puts some more thought into it for those who may have truly never even thought about it before.

Oh yes, and thanks for the vote

[acestro]

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it does bring genetics that were never meant to be there foreever altering that population

Very important point. To release a Florida bluegill into Louisiana waters because you know that there are bluegill in Louisiana is wrong.

If you ever wanted to examine what was happening genetically (for one of many possible reasons) you would get un-natural findings. You may also have genes for traits that make the animal more of a detriment to the ecosystem or itself. yeah, the list goes on and on. And many hobbyists just don't know.

As dumb as that whole Maryland snakehead thing was (didn't even involve a hobbyist or a pet store! ), I think it woke up a lot of people who had no idea how this hobby could affect things or be affected!

Hey Innes, can you move this to scientific?

[InIndiana]

Weren't the snakeheads just found in a small pond in Maryland and it had a slight chance of "walking" about 250-1000 feet to a near river? Did this fiasco affect anything ? Or did it just scare residents when they found it

[Fruitbat]

As an example of just how seriously some Fish&Game departments take the threat of released exotic fish, I offer this list of fish that are prohibited in the State of Texas.

No person may import, possess, sell, or place into water of this state exotic, harmful, or potentially harmful fish, shellfish, or aquatic plants except as authorized by rule or permit issued by the department.

Lampreys - All species except Chestnut Lamprey, Ichthyomyzon castaneus and Southern Brook Lamprey, I. gagei
Freshwater Stingrays - all species
Arapaima - Arapaima gigas
Dourados - All species of genus Salminus
Raphiodontid Characoids - All species of genera Hydrolycus and Rhaphiodon (synonymous with Cynodon)
South American Pike Characoids - All species of genera Acestrorhynchus, Ctenolucius (Boulengerella) and Luciocharax (Hydrocinus)
African Pike Characoids - Families: Hepsetidae and Ichthyboridae - all species
African Tiger Fishes - all species
South American Tiger (Wolf) Fishes Family: Erythrinidae - - all species
Piranhas and Pirambebas - all species
Freshwater Eels - All species except American Eel, Anguilla rostrata
Swamp Eels, Rice Eels or One-Gilled Eels : Family Synbranchidae - all species
Electric eel - Electrophorus electricus
Carps - All species and hybrids of species of genera Ctenopharyngodon (Grass Carp), Mylopharyngodon (Black Carp), Aristichthys (Bighead Carp), Hypophthalmichthys (Silver Carp), Cirrhina (Mud Carp and relatives) and Thynnichthys (Sandhkol and other Thynnichthyid Carp)
Rudd and Roach - all species of genera Scardinius and Rutilus
Old World Breams - All species of genera Abramis, Blicca, Megalobrama and Parabramis
Old World Chubs, Ide, and Dace - all species of the genus Leuciscus
Asps and Yellowcheek - All species of the genera Aspius, Pseudaspius, Aspiolucius and Elopichthys
Giant Barbs, Mahseers, and Catla - all species of the genera Tor and Catla and the species Barbus tor (synonymous with Barbus hexagoniolepis)
Walking Catfishes - all species
Electric Catfishes - all species
South American Parasitic Catfishes - all species
Whale Catfishes - all species
Airsac Catfishes - All species of genus Heteropneustes
Pike Killifish - Belonesox belizanus
Marine Stonefishes - all species
Tilapia - All species of genus Tilapia (including Sarotherodon and Oreochromis)
Snakeheads - all species
Asian Pikeheads : Family Luciocephalidae - all species
Old World Pike-Perches - All species of the genus Stizostedion except Walleye, Stizostedion vitreum and Sauger, S. canadense
Ruff - All species of genus Gymnocephalus
Nile Perch - All species of genera Lates and Luciolates
Seatrouts and Corvinas - All species of genus Cynoscion except Spotted Seatrout, Cynoscion nebulosus; Silver Seatrout, C. nothus and Sand Seatrout, C. arenarius

As you can see....this list includes practically EVERY fish that the folks on Piranha_Fury are so fond of!! All because of fears (rational or otherwise) that some dolt will get ahold of them and release them into Texas waters where they could probably survive!!

[acestro]

So glad I don't live in Texas (no Acestrorhynchus allowed!!!). If the idiots continue to release things you will find it harder and harder to get the fish you want.

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Weren't the snakeheads just found in a small pond in Maryland and it had a slight chance of "walking" about 250-1000 feet to a near river? Did this fiasco affect anything ? Or did it just scare residents when they found it

It affected the legality of importing snakeheads to the U.S. or across borders or selling them at all (all three are now illegal)! It didn't affect anything ecologically from what I know.

[Innes]

great thread

[Death in #'s]

lots of cool info hear thanks guys

[the grinch]

yeah great thread. but wouldnt it be cool to have one lake that was gated off and have it full of all kinds of exotic fish. Regulated of course and see what would happen. for scientific research. See who survived why who cross breed ect.

[acestro]

They have that, it's called South Florida


So far it looks good for Mayan cichlids! But the scary thing is, they are spreading north!

[dead golfish]

i live in canada and its your pond not man made and there are no fish living in the pond would that be illegal

[piranha45]

you tell em dude

[acestro]

Um, my last post was over a YEAR ago. I'm not following...

[piranha45]

acestro, on Apr 27 2005, 10:25 PM, said:

Um, my last post was over a YEAR ago.  I'm not following...

ace dont downplay the gravity of his unintelligible drivel.

[Joga Bonito]

some guy on p-fury said in one of the posts, that he had releast his pacu into a lake

[acestro]

To address all replies, it's never a good idea. It doesn't matter if it's your private pond. In some cases even that's illegal (depending on where you are and what species).

The legality isn't the first issue, however. Disrupting habitats is. Flooding can join ponds to natural waterways. Unless you are sure this will be avoided, it is a bad idea. Also, if your pacu gets found by Fish and Wildlife and it's not the first pacu they find, you may find yourself unable to buy pacu in the near future (bad example, pacu SHOULD be illegal, they are not appropriate aquarium fish).

[sprtslvr785]

This thread has some good info. My dad is into tournament fishing (for bass) and a buddy of his has caught 3 or 4 piranha in the river near our house in the last couple of years, thats not good at all. And they have also found some type of fish that has the capability of knocking out the whole river system. I forget the name of it but ill ask my dad the next time I see him for the name of it.

[acestro]

Thanks, I agree this is a useful thread. Even recently I questioned how bad invasives could be. It seemed that usually they didn't do well in really pristine areas. Now I know that this isn't always the case, that there is the 'invasional meltdown' aspect, and that there are more ways than you can imagine that an invasive could affect and ecosystem.

[MR.FREEZ]

ever since you posted that link to the NFC i have been

very interested in joining the organization because lately i have really felt like doing something

important for ol mother nature and i know for a fact theres tons of carp around the fresh lakes here

plus a good day of fishing invasives is better then a bad day of work :laugh:

This post has been edited by MR.FREEZ: 29 April 2005 - 11:46 PM

[acestro]

I'm impressed! Knock em out. Carp may be one of the worst. They dont seem to mind entering pristine areas (unlike a lot of other invasive species).